New xbox isnt always online, but.. well it is..

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-22-phil-harrison-tries-again-to-clarify-game-ownership-second-hand-sales-and-always-online-in-xbox-one

Basically it needs to be able to get online at least once every 24 hours. (So catching up on all the single player games you wanted to because your internet has been down for a few days is out)

The second hand thing is a non starter too (Although rumour has it theres going to be a 'solution for second hand'). Basically if I loan someone the disc you can play the disc.. by paying what you would have done to buy the disc in the first place. So I can bring the game around to your house and providing I sign in you can play and if you like it... you can buy it too and you wont need to install it again. Aint that nice of them

I'm still finding this very conflicting....

"So, think about how you use a disc that you own of an Xbox 360 game," he began. "If I buy the disc from a store, I use that disc in my machine, I can give that disc to my son and he can play it on his 360 in his room. We both can't play at the same time, but the disc is the key to playing. I can go round to your house and give you that disc and you can play on that game as well.

"What we're doing with the digital permissions that we have for Xbox One is no different to that. If I am playing on that disc, which is installed to the hard drive on my Xbox One, everybody in my household who has permission to use my Xbox One can use that piece of content. [So] I can give that piece of content to my son and he can play it on the same system."

Harrison then explained what happens when you want to take that game beyond the borders of your own home and into a friend's place.

"I can come to your house and I can put the disc into your machine and I can sign in as me and we can play the game," he explained.

"The bits are on your hard drive. At the end of the play session, when I take my disc home - or even if I leave it with you - if you want to continue to play that game [on your profile] then you have to pay for it. The bits are already on your hard drive, so it's just a question of going to our [online] store and buying the game, and then it's instantly available to play.

"The bits that are on the disc, I can give to anybody else, but if we both want to play it at the same time, we both have to own it. That's no different to how discs operate today."


Basically I'm garnering two scenarios from this, on one hand it seems he is saying the disc is the key and it works exactly the same as the current 360 so therefore you could lend games to your friends, he states that if two people both want to play they'll both need a disc which is exactly as it is now...

Then he goes into all this jargon about it being tied to the digital content and that trade ins will work differently, basically stating that the disc won't be the key and infact the account it's tied to will be

so as long as your signed in you can play or if you have permission.

I assume by permission and the reason they used my sons computer as an example is the accounts are connected on the family account thing you can have?

and as long as im signed in to a machine my game works. so unless Kinect is required to access my profile I could give Reece my codes he could log in and I could send him the game? as long as im not logged in obviously.

and it sounds like a online pass type of thing to buy a licence for second hand games.

Why is it all so confusing now. What happened to putting the disc in and playing the bloody game. All this online pass and code crap does my head in. I might just fuck both consoles off and play on the PC.

PC gaming isnt just plug in the disc and play. Plug in the disk make an account download onto computer link it to steam, all that boolocks is why I never bother with PC.

Seems like the new consoles are trying to be more like a PC

the second hand thing is a bit scary, and tbh, its a deal breaker for me. however, i'll be a monkeys uncle if both sony and microsoft have something similar in place thats opposite to what we have seen before now and in previous gen's. they want a cut of resale value and thats that. and, to be honest (and not so much for the console manufacturers pov, but more the developers) i cant really argue with that. think how many devs have gone over the years. would an extra couple of quid per second hand sale have helped them? probably, though how much is debatable.

there are two things that give me some hope that it wont be as bad as people fear.

the first is this:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2013/05/21/gamestop-president-tony-bartel-talks-xbox-one-playstation-4-used-games-and-pre-orders/

i do take heart that the pres of a company - US's equivalent of Game - is not worried about this. especially as during the article, he correctly identified that the ability to sell a game to a store is a major factor in the ability to be able to afford a new game for many many people.

the second is that MS themselves have come out and said that second hand games are "a thing" that is possible.

but yh, i dont expect it to be how it is now / used to be. they will want a cut.

also, given that the new box will have the abillity to "lock" games out, i wonder if ms will do game rentals themselves. i doubt it, but there is no reason they couldnt as far as i can tell. im on a deal with LF, 2 discs at a time, as many as i want a month. with digital distribution, why couldnt ms do it?

I'm nipping into my local Game today so I might see what they have to say on the matter

good luck with that. i suspect they know feck all though

Wheeto wrote:PC gaming isnt just plug in the disc and play. Plug in the disk make an account download onto computer link it to steam, all that boolocks is why I never bother with PC.

Seems like the new consoles are trying to be more like a PC

But its simple. I go on steam I pay for it and download it. Ok I cant trade that game in but I can play it offline or online and If I can have my games on multiple PC's. I don't have to ever pay for online passes either and the games all comes come down to 75% off at some stage so rarely ever pay more than £10 on a game

slowdog76 wrote:good luck with that. i suspect they know feck all though

More than likely but you never know....

HomerRamone2084 wrote:Basically it needs to be able to get online at least once every 24 hours.

Now that's confusing me even more. Obviously it doesn't need to be online to work (so it's not having computations done on the cloud or whatever like Sim City claimed it did), so why does it need to be online once every 24 hours? The only reason I can think of is they don't want people hacking the console then playing offline with illegally downloaded games (like some people did this generation). So basically if my internet has been out for 25 hours I can't play any games as they suspect I'm a pirate.

I can't recall a launch/reveal that has created so many more questions than it answered

NightHaze FWG wrote:

Wheeto wrote:PC gaming isnt just plug in the disc and play. Plug in the disk make an account download onto computer link it to steam, all that boolocks is why I never bother with PC.

Seems like the new consoles are trying to be more like a PC

But its simple. I go on steam I pay for it and download it. Ok I cant trade that game in but I can play it offline or online and If I can have my games on multiple PC's. I don't have to ever pay for online passes either and the games all comes come down to 75% off at some stage so rarely ever pay more than £10 on a game

how many games do you own that you are still to play though? and its all good prefeing a PC there generally never ever simple, viruses, bugs, updates, restores, new parts, upgrades. accounts for games, that's a pretty complicated and long list to be fair

Reaper FWG wrote:

NightHaze FWG wrote:

Wheeto wrote:PC gaming isnt just plug in the disc and play. Plug in the disk make an account download onto computer link it to steam, all that boolocks is why I never bother with PC.

Seems like the new consoles are trying to be more like a PC

But its simple. I go on steam I pay for it and download it. Ok I cant trade that game in but I can play it offline or online and If I can have my games on multiple PC's. I don't have to ever pay for online passes either and the games all comes come down to 75% off at some stage so rarely ever pay more than £10 on a game

how many games do you own that you are still to play though? and its all good prefeing a PC there generally never ever simple, viruses, bugs, updates, restores, new parts, upgrades. accounts for games, that's a pretty complicated and long list to be fair

If theres that many problems with PC's it makes you wonder why people spunk so much money on new ones

oi................ I love my PC! although in Nov ish time I may not be needing it anymore lol

Summary of both links:
You install the game to your hard drive. Any profile on that console can play it. If you take the disc elsewhere to another console, you (or someone else) can play as long as you use my profile to do so. Otherwise you have to pay the full price of the game. Given how shitty MS's online prices currently are, this could be a fucking fortune. If they're reasonably priced (since there's no disc/booklet/box to produce, no transporting the game to stores and no shops taking a cut) this could be fine, but given their track record they'll probably be dicks about it.

The real disadvantage of this is I can't swap games with a mate where I give him Mass Effect 2 and he gives me Fallout for a week then we swap back. Cue Homers second link. You can "trade" games online, but they don't specify what the currency is. Is it MS points, other games or real money. Do we set our own prices or are they set by MS? And more importantly, will MS be taking a cut/charging a fee to use the service? If we set our own prices and they aren't taking a cut then I could just sell a game to my mate for 50p and he does the same for me. Then we sell them back. Again, raising more questions than answers.

As for the third link, on kinect he says "They actually love the interface UI and that which Kinect stands for, as well as the in-game functionality of Kinect." regarding core gamers. That's an outright fucking lie. It's regarded as a joke, a childrens toy.

Well as the info stands it means retail games work just like XBLA ones do.

But Mr Nelson has commented that there is going to be a way you can trade games in but didnt go into details. (I am of the opinion they have planted this seed hoping theres not a backlash about it - if there is they can say 'we are on the case' and if theres not just keep quiet about it)
Major Nelson (and his column)

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353538/xbox-one-perform-recurring-online-checks-even-for-offline-play

Microsoft clarifies that Phil Harrison was merely discussing "potential scenarios" and that all the stuff he said was either bollocks or he wasn't supposed to say it. Major Nelson tweeted about how policies still hadn't been decided, presumably for the same reason.

Hopefully they listen then otherwise Microsoft may have a mutiny on their hands

I get the feeling that what he said is pretty much spot on, but they either haven't finalised the finer points or they're considering changing it sure to the backlash.